High School weekly mileage
10/21/2011 9:24:49 AM
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Interested in debating what weekly mileage the top high school athletes are doing. Realize this should be on an individualized basis. By top I am referring to maybe top 10 in XC at midget, junior and senior.
Interested in debating what weekly mileage the top high school athletes are doing. Realize this should be on an individualized basis. By top I am referring to maybe top 10 in XC at midget, junior and senior.
10/22/2011 8:30:59 PM
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@oasis More specifically, how many miles does Austin Forbes run per week?
@oasis More specifically, how many miles does Austin Forbes run per week?
10/22/2011 8:58:03 PM
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[quote=Chris_P_Bacon]@oasis More specifically, how many miles does Austin Forbes run per week?[/quote] @Chris_P_Bacon better question, who is Austin Forbes?
Chris_P_Bacon wrote:
@oasis More specifically, how many miles does Austin Forbes run per week?


@Chris_P_Bacon
better question, who is Austin Forbes?
10/22/2011 9:45:11 PM
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I've got it on fairly good authority that Keffri Neal National junior 800m champ ran somewhere in the neighborhood of 70mpw during his Gr 12 winter.
I've got it on fairly good authority that Keffri Neal National junior 800m champ ran somewhere in the neighborhood of 70mpw during his Gr 12 winter.
10/23/2011 3:12:21 AM
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@Canrunner2662 You got that right,and that included twice a day runs 3-4 days a week. Peace out....Dr.Heartons
@Canrunner2662 You got that right,and that included twice a day runs 3-4 days a week.
Peace out....Dr.Heartons
10/23/2011 4:42:59 PM
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I believe Austin Forbes is a triathlete? He runs 2-3 times a week. So roughly speaking maybe 20-40km a week. Or so this is what he has done in the past such like his grade 12 year, unsure what he is doing this year though
I believe Austin Forbes is a triathlete? He runs 2-3 times a week. So roughly speaking maybe 20-40km a week. Or so this is what he has done in the past such like his grade 12 year, unsure what he is doing this year though
10/23/2011 4:43:19 PM
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@IplayRS247 Do you mean 85 km (not miles) for Sleiman? Having a 16 year old grade 11 kid running 85 miles/week is not a very good plan for success in a 7km xc race. I just finished an 85 mile week in preparation for a marathon!
@IplayRS247

Do you mean 85 km (not miles) for Sleiman? Having a 16 year old grade 11 kid running 85 miles/week is not a very good plan for success in a 7km xc race. I just finished an 85 mile week in preparation for a marathon!
10/23/2011 4:58:50 PM
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@CoachFaulds What's wrong with 85 mile weeks for elite senior high school athletes? I don't know anything about how those guys train, but if they're physically mature enough to handle the mileage (which results seem to indicate that they are), why not? Even at 7km, cross country is overwhelmingly aerobic. Most elite cross runners hit the triple digits and those kids clearly are physically mature enough to start building into high high numbers. I think high school coaches often fear overtraining young athletes and keep mileage relatively low. The problem is a lot of them are often misguided, focusing too heavily on anaerobic work which is more likely to burn a young runner out than long easy mileage. Within reason, lots of long, easy mileage seems to be a lot safer. If an elite high school runner has built up over a period of time and is only working out (with distance based workouts) 2-3 times a week, 85 miles doesn't sound like too much. I wouldn't claim that I know exactly how much they should run in a week, but it seems unreasonable to automatically say they should be restricted to significantly less than that because they're in high school and only race 7km.
@CoachFaulds

What's wrong with 85 mile weeks for elite senior high school athletes? I don't know anything about how those guys train, but if they're physically mature enough to handle the mileage (which results seem to indicate that they are), why not? Even at 7km, cross country is overwhelmingly aerobic. Most elite cross runners hit the triple digits and those kids clearly are physically mature enough to start building into high high numbers. I think high school coaches often fear overtraining young athletes and keep mileage relatively low. The problem is a lot of them are often misguided, focusing too heavily on anaerobic work which is more likely to burn a young runner out than long easy mileage. Within reason, lots of long, easy mileage seems to be a lot safer. If an elite high school runner has built up over a period of time and is only working out (with distance based workouts) 2-3 times a week, 85 miles doesn't sound like too much. I wouldn't claim that I know exactly how much they should run in a week, but it seems unreasonable to automatically say they should be restricted to significantly less than that because they're in high school and only race 7km.
10/23/2011 5:54:36 PM
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I'd say it's pretty relative. Some people need less mileage and other people might need more! It really depends on the runner and what they feel they are capable of handling. I know some runners that get injured doing a certain amount of mileage and some that could definitely be doing more.
I'd say it's pretty relative. Some people need less mileage and other people might need more! It really depends on the runner and what they feel they are capable of handling. I know some runners that get injured doing a certain amount of mileage and some that could definitely be doing more.
10/23/2011 6:36:08 PM
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@Raymond I think that's in line with what I was saying. It really depends on the athlete, but it's definitely not fair to have a number (especially a pretty low one like 85) and say it's objectively too much for any high schooler. I really want to hear what the TNF heavyweights have to say on this topic (Oldster, PeteQ, bryano etc.).
@Raymond
I think that's in line with what I was saying. It really depends on the athlete, but it's definitely not fair to have a number (especially a pretty low one like 85) and say it's objectively too much for any high schooler. I really want to hear what the TNF heavyweights have to say on this topic (Oldster, PeteQ, bryano etc.).
10/23/2011 7:57:34 PM
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@donjuan How much do you run if you think 85 miles per week is not much? When I was in high school most of the "elite" high school guys that I raced against were doing 60-70 miles per week. Some went a little bit higher but not consistent 85/week. My brother won the OFSAA 3k (the only gold medal Greg Anderson didn't win!) in 1985 when he was Sleiman's age. He went 8:23 which is pretty elite and was running around 60-65 miles per week in the off-season and less during the racing season. When he got to university after 5 years of building up through high school, the program he was on was 85-90 miles per week so, while I know capabilities and the ability to respond to training loads will be different for each individual, I still maintain that 85 miles per week is too much for a grade 11 kid unless he started his build up around age 10.
@donjuan

How much do you run if you think 85 miles per week is not much?

When I was in high school most of the "elite" high school guys that I raced against were doing 60-70 miles per week. Some went a little bit higher but not consistent 85/week. My brother won the OFSAA 3k (the only gold medal Greg Anderson didn't win!) in 1985 when he was Sleiman's age. He went 8:23 which is pretty elite and was running around 60-65 miles per week in the off-season and less during the racing season. When he got to university after 5 years of building up through high school, the program he was on was 85-90 miles per week so, while I know capabilities and the ability to respond to training loads will be different for each individual, I still maintain that 85 miles per week is too much for a grade 11 kid unless he started his build up around age 10.
10/23/2011 8:29:26 PM
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[quote=oasis]Interested in debating what weekly mileage the top high school athletes are doing. Realize this should be on an individualized basis. By top I am referring to maybe top 10 in XC at midget, junior and senior.[/quote] @oasis I know that your original post specifically mentioned xcountry,but since Canrunner2662 mentioned Keffri Neal,who is primarily an 800m runner with some 1500 m experience,I wanted to mention the fact that Neal is not a cross country runner per se,but has done some xcountry running.Neal's training was geared specifically to make him very strong for the 800m.They also included additional work(some weight training for example) to go along with the mileage. I,like donjuan,would also like to hear from some of the "heavyweights" about what kind of mileage /training should an 800m -1500m "elite"h.s. runner should be doing this time of year in preparation to compete against the best h.s.athletes not only in Canada,but in the U.S.(Brooks Invitational in February ).McBride and Smith come to mind as 800m standouts. Peace Out Dr.Heartons By "heavyweights",I specifically mean people like bryano,Oldster,peteq2 and others.
asis wrote:
Interested in debating what weekly mileage the top high school athletes are doing. Realize this should be on an individualized basis. By top I am referring to maybe top 10 in XC at midget, junior and senior.


@oasis I know that your original post specifically mentioned xcountry,but since Canrunner2662 mentioned Keffri Neal,who is primarily an 800m runner with some 1500 m experience,I wanted to mention the fact that Neal is not a cross country runner per se,but has done some xcountry running.Neal's training was geared specifically to make him very strong for the 800m.They also included additional work(some weight training for example) to go along with the mileage.
I,like donjuan,would also like to hear from some of the "heavyweights" about what kind of mileage /training should an 800m -1500m "elite"h.s. runner should be doing this time of year in preparation to compete against the best h.s.athletes not only in Canada,but in the U.S.(Brooks Invitational in February ).McBride and Smith come to mind as 800m standouts.

Peace Out Dr.Heartons

By "heavyweights",I specifically mean people like bryano,Oldster,peteq2 and others.
10/23/2011 9:02:26 PM
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@DrHeartons If by "heavyweight" you mean kinda fat, then I suppose I qualify, but I'm just an age-group (masters) runner who enjoys hearing himself talk, mostly. I have no real opinion about what a high school age athlete should run, and defer entirely to those who work with teenage runners.
@DrHeartons

If by "heavyweight" you mean kinda fat, then I suppose I qualify, but I'm just an age-group (masters) runner who enjoys hearing himself talk, mostly.

I have no real opinion about what a high school age athlete should run, and defer entirely to those who work with teenage runners.
10/23/2011 9:59:31 PM
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@peteq2 You are being very humble here peteq2,and there is nothing wrong with that.Quite admirable I would say considering you know quite a bit about so many aspects of this sport.I enjoy listening to you talk,and it's obvious that others respect what you have to say also.Anything that you are willing to contribute to this subject ,I look forward to. Peace Out.....Dr.Heartons
@peteq2 You are being very humble here peteq2,and there is nothing wrong with that.Quite admirable I would say considering you know quite a bit about so many aspects of this sport.I enjoy listening to you talk,and it's obvious that others respect what you have to say also.Anything that you are willing to contribute to this subject ,I look forward to.

Peace Out.....Dr.Heartons
10/25/2011 2:03:45 PM
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@CoachFaulds It's not unreasonable for a 16-17 year old to run that much, but it would certainly be rare. I agree with the other poster that to dismiss it out of hand as absolutely too much is wrong. What no one asks in these comparisons (probably because we can't know) is how much faster people who ran 40mpw or 60mpw might have gone on 60 or 80. It's not really a good argument to say: X runner ran pretty good time Y on Z amount of mileage, so Z amount of mileage is therefore enough. In terms of building up to it, who knows what the kids are doing. If they are playing minor soccer, and biking everywhere, and running 3 or 4 days a week at age 12 that might very well be a good base to allow them to transition to 85 miles at age 16. I think the answer to the question how much mileage should you do is: more than you have done in the past, depending on the time of year, and what kind of quality workouts you are doing, and how fast you are running your miles. If high school kids slowed down their miles, they could probably do more. I realise that's a massive genrealisation. But maybe they need to run fast to deal with the fact that they are teenagers... ;)
@CoachFaulds

It's not unreasonable for a 16-17 year old to run that much, but it would certainly be rare. I agree with the other poster that to dismiss it out of hand as absolutely too much is wrong.

What no one asks in these comparisons (probably because we can't know) is how much faster people who ran 40mpw or 60mpw might have gone on 60 or 80. It's not really a good argument to say: X runner ran pretty good time Y on Z amount of mileage, so Z amount of mileage is therefore enough.

In terms of building up to it, who knows what the kids are doing. If they are playing minor soccer, and biking everywhere, and running 3 or 4 days a week at age 12 that might very well be a good base to allow them to transition to 85 miles at age 16.

I think the answer to the question how much mileage should you do is: more than you have done in the past, depending on the time of year, and what kind of quality workouts you are doing, and how fast you are running your miles. If high school kids slowed down their miles, they could probably do more. I realise that's a massive genrealisation. But maybe they need to run fast to deal with the fact that they are teenagers... ;)
10/25/2011 10:50:21 PM
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@Stingersxc Exactly, people shouldn't be so keen on generalisations. @Coachfaulds I understand your dismay as you fear the athlete may burn out, from what I'm guessing a very personal experience of what high mileage in certain youths can do. I can assure you that the athletes I've mentioned are no push-overs though. Even I will admit, based on what I've saw, these guys are built far more superior than that of an average runner when it comes to long distance. After one glance at their natural technique and stride efficiency I finally understood why they can run for so long without a hint of injury.
@Stingersxc
Exactly, people shouldn't be so keen on generalisations.

@Coachfaulds
I understand your dismay as you fear the athlete may burn out, from what I'm guessing a very personal experience of what high mileage in certain youths can do. I can assure you that the athletes I've mentioned are no push-overs though. Even I will admit, based on what I've saw, these guys are built far more superior than that of an average runner when it comes to long distance. After one glance at their natural technique and stride efficiency I finally understood why they can run for so long without a hint of injury.
10/26/2011 8:59:33 AM
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[b]@Canrunner26 I've got it on fairly good authority that Keffri Neal National junior 800m champ ran somewhere in the neighborhood of 70mpw during his Gr 12 winter.[/b] ya right he did... 70miles per week is barely neccesary for sub 1:45 guys anymore
@Canrunner26 I've got it on fairly good authority that Keffri Neal National junior 800m champ ran somewhere in the neighborhood of 70mpw during his Gr 12 winter.

ya right he did... 70miles per week is barely neccesary for sub 1:45 guys anymore
10/26/2011 9:26:33 AM
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[quote=canada_track604]@Canrunner26 I've got it on fairly good authority that Keffri Neal National junior 800m champ ran somewhere in the neighborhood of 70mpw during his Gr 12 winter. ya right he did... 70miles per week is barely neccesary for sub 1:45 guys anymore[/quote] @canada_track604 barely necessary...anymore? please enlighten us what you mean by this statement
canada_track604 wrote:
@Canrunner26 I've got it on fairly good authority that Keffri Neal National junior 800m champ ran somewhere in the neighborhood of 70mpw during his Gr 12 winter.

ya right he did... 70miles per week is barely neccesary for sub 1:45 guys anymore


@canada_track604
barely necessary...anymore? please enlighten us what you mean by this statement
10/26/2011 9:32:11 AM
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@canada_track604 In an interview with Canadian Running magazine, he has stated that he normally does 100-110km a week to prepare him for the season, and in the same article Sean Keane said he does 60-70km a week.. Keffri beats Sean on a regular basis in the 800m so the extra mileage seems to help his performance in the 800m not to mention in the 1500m (3:50) and was he not a decent cross-country runner too?
@canada_track604

In an interview with Canadian Running magazine, he has stated that he normally does 100-110km a week to prepare him for the season, and in the same article Sean Keane said he does 60-70km a week.. Keffri beats Sean on a regular basis in the 800m so the extra mileage seems to help his performance in the 800m not to mention in the 1500m (3:50) and was he not a decent cross-country runner too?
10/26/2011 2:38:39 PM
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Since Bryan won't fill in the holes I will. Keffri ran in the 60+ mile rnage in the winter months, but recognize that mileage is relative to intensity. XC was a means to and ends. Since Bryan asked me to preuse Keffri's training i have some intricate details on what he did. Some good long reps, some tempo style work, gym work, some hills mixed in with the odd solid speedier session for indoor racing. Pretty standard IMHO, but then again pretty standard in my world means good solid intelligent training. Running 100 mile weeks with no hard workouts is easier than say running 50 miles with 3-4 hard sessions per week. A more relative concept would be time ran......
Since Bryan won't fill in the holes I will. Keffri ran in the 60+ mile rnage in the winter months, but recognize that mileage is relative to intensity. XC was a means to and ends. Since Bryan asked me to preuse Keffri's training i have some intricate details on what he did. Some good long reps, some tempo style work, gym work, some hills mixed in with the odd solid speedier session for indoor racing. Pretty standard IMHO, but then again pretty standard in my world means good solid intelligent training. Running 100 mile weeks with no hard workouts is easier than say running 50 miles with 3-4 hard sessions per week. A more relative concept would be time ran......

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