Dylan Wykes - 28:12.82
05/02/2011 1:30:52 AM
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Joined: Oct 2010
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Solid run at Stanford!
Solid run at Stanford!
05/02/2011 10:04:37 PM
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Joined: May 2010
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@StLouisDrugDeala D. Wykes is now as fast over 10k, faster over HM, and just almost as experienced over 42k, as a certain J. Drayton was when the latter ran a certain 2:10:08 for that distance. Make of that what you will>:-o Sorry, wrong face. I meant ;-)
@StLouisDrugDeala D. Wykes is now as fast over 10k, faster over HM, and just almost as experienced over 42k, as a certain J. Drayton was when the latter ran a certain 2:10:08 for that distance. Make of that what you will Sorry, wrong face. I meant
05/02/2011 10:48:56 PM
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@oldster I would not be suprised if Wykes also takes Draytons mark down along with Bairu. by the looks of it, he is just starting to find his wheels again. What is his 5000 PR? As for Athletics Canada, when is the Olympic trials marathon? the timing of it can really tell how serious they are about our marathoners.
@oldster

I would not be suprised if Wykes also takes Draytons mark down along with Bairu. by the looks of it, he is just starting to find his wheels again. What is his 5000 PR?
As for Athletics Canada, when is the Olympic trials marathon? the timing of it can really tell how serious they are about our marathoners.
05/02/2011 11:57:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
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@ERL_19 He just broke it at Oregon Relays a couple weeks ago, used to be 13:57 and now its 13:43.
@ERL_19

He just broke it at Oregon Relays a couple weeks ago, used to be 13:57 and now its 13:43.
05/03/2011 12:40:00 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
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@StLouisDrugDeala Dylan is really coming along nicely, but to beat 2:10 and then to progress to top 25 in the world, he must bring his lower distances down. 13:43 and 28:12 (23rd place in the race) aren't world class and are inferior to his marathon. The guys nowadays are more than just marathoners, but have to become very fast 5000 and 10000 runners. Canada right now is lacking the groups that have the money and wherewithal to hit Flagstaff Arizona regularly for altitude camps and get to the big meets and have the support. Guelph is the closest we've got - we need more. Hopefully Dylan will be able to get what he needs to progress even further. Well done Dylan.
@StLouisDrugDeala

Dylan is really coming along nicely, but to beat 2:10 and then to progress to top 25 in the world, he must bring his lower distances down. 13:43 and 28:12 (23rd place in the race) aren't world class and are inferior to his marathon.

The guys nowadays are more than just marathoners, but have to become very fast 5000 and 10000 runners. Canada right now is lacking the groups that have the money and wherewithal to hit Flagstaff Arizona regularly for altitude camps and get to the big meets and have the support. Guelph is the closest we've got - we need more. Hopefully Dylan will be able to get what he needs to progress even further.

Well done Dylan.
05/03/2011 12:39:26 PM
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@Canrunner2662 I respectfully disagree that he, or anyone else, needs to be faster than 13:43 and 28:12 over 5 and 10 to beat 2:10. I already mentioned Drayton, but there are plenty of guys over the years have run 2:10 or better with very similar or slower bests at these distances (e.g. from the U.S. heyday, Rodgers, Beardsley, Coppess; and, more recently, Brian Sell, although he didn't quite get his sub-2:10). Someone who is suited to the event, properly prepared, and experienced can certainly expect to break 2:10 with these kinds of times. And on what basis do you make the claim that Dylan's marathon (2:12:39) is better than his 5 and 10 anyway? His 5 is still a little weak, but no performance tables I've seen put his marathon even close to 28:12 (never mind his 1:02:14 HM). Right now, he is actually much better on average at 5k to HM than he is at the marathon. As an aside, I would also argue that Wykes already [i]is[/i] better over 5 and 10 than these times suggest. Both of these times were set in his first track races of 2011, and the 5 was run with a 59.7 final lap. A couple more good opportunities (opportunities that he will almost certainly not take, due to his marathon focus) and you could reasonably expect 13:30/28:00. He has ample shorter distance chops to run 2:10, and he is more experienced than any of his national competitors when it comes to training for and racing this distance. The marathon is always something of a crap-shoot, but DW has better than a gambler's shot at beating Drayton's record in Oct, weather permitting. Making it to London, of course, is another matter, as he'll have to get by some very able and well coached competitors, all of whom have very legit 2:10 aspirations. As MJD will no doubt soon point out, we still have a long way to go to reach international respectability in this event; but, real progress is being made, and 2011 is set to be the most interesting year in decades for Canadian men's distance running.
@Canrunner2662 I respectfully disagree that he, or anyone else, needs to be faster than 13:43 and 28:12 over 5 and 10 to beat 2:10. I already mentioned Drayton, but there are plenty of guys over the years have run 2:10 or better with very similar or slower bests at these distances (e.g. from the U.S. heyday, Rodgers, Beardsley, Coppess; and, more recently, Brian Sell, although he didn't quite get his sub-2:10). Someone who is suited to the event, properly prepared, and experienced can certainly expect to break 2:10 with these kinds of times. And on what basis do you make the claim that Dylan's marathon (2:12:39) is better than his 5 and 10 anyway? His 5 is still a little weak, but no performance tables I've seen put his marathon even close to 28:12 (never mind his 1:02:14 HM). Right now, he is actually much better on average at 5k to HM than he is at the marathon.

As an aside, I would also argue that Wykes already is better over 5 and 10 than these times suggest. Both of these times were set in his first track races of 2011, and the 5 was run with a 59.7 final lap. A couple more good opportunities (opportunities that he will almost certainly not take, due to his marathon focus) and you could reasonably expect 13:30/28:00. He has ample shorter distance chops to run 2:10, and he is more experienced than any of his national competitors when it comes to training for and racing this distance. The marathon is always something of a crap-shoot, but DW has better than a gambler's shot at beating Drayton's record in Oct, weather permitting. Making it to London, of course, is another matter, as he'll have to get by some very able and well coached competitors, all of whom have very legit 2:10 aspirations. As MJD will no doubt soon point out, we still have a long way to go to reach international respectability in this event; but, real progress is being made, and 2011 is set to be the most interesting year in decades for Canadian men's distance running.
05/04/2011 11:26:29 PM
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Joined: May 2010
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@oldster Pretty good reply oldster. We seem to be getting some quality distance runners going - both male and female. And I like the looks of some of the young runners coming up. I wonder if we can get good enough to start tapping into some of the private money that the US distance runners are tapping into. I think this is the way to get going in the future, rather than the government sponsored centres. Guelph has got it right. I've noticed that Windsor is also starting to produce a batch of good distance runners. Here in BC the distance running scene is a little weak. As usual, we've got some good young talent, but are we going to have the infrastructure to keep them here after college and get them to big meets as well as altitude training opportunities? Back in the 80s, runners used to come here from other parts of Canada to train in the winter. The Kajaks and Victoria had some pretty good middle distance groups. I wonder if this can happen in the future.
@oldster

Pretty good reply oldster. We seem to be getting some quality distance runners going - both male and female. And I like the looks of some of the young runners coming up. I wonder if we can get good enough to start tapping into some of the private money that the US distance runners are tapping into.

I think this is the way to get going in the future, rather than the government sponsored centres. Guelph has got it right. I've noticed that Windsor is also starting to produce a batch of good distance runners.

Here in BC the distance running scene is a little weak. As usual, we've got some good young talent, but are we going to have the infrastructure to keep them here after college and get them to big meets as well as altitude training opportunities?

Back in the 80s, runners used to come here from other parts of Canada to train in the winter. The Kajaks and Victoria had some pretty good middle distance groups. I wonder if this can happen in the future.
05/05/2011 1:12:54 PM
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@bryano Back in the 80s, runners used to come west, period, and most ran big P.B.s shortly thereafter! Traffic and cost of living notwithstanding, the lower mainland remains a great place to train, and it would not take much, in terms of finances, to launch a group similar to Speed River (or to rebuild one like Kajaks) in the area. Perhaps Dylan's presence will induce a few more of the talented B.C. boys to get after it as post-collegians. (More of you guys should be getting in with Richard Lee's group, in my opinion. If you want to learn what it takes to become a real distance runner, look no further!). Of course, not everyone can go out west, and it remains possible to make a go of it almost anywhere here in Canada, as the Guelph boys have clearly shown. Back in the 80s, there were several very strong groups in Toronto and Montreal too. Once there is a critical mass of 3-4 serious people working with a knowledgeable and committed coach, the rest is easier than people think. And, yeah, don't expect serious leadership from AC in this area. Once you've already managed to get very good, they will take an interest. Until then, you're on your own. They're in the business of competing with other Olympic sports for funding dollars, period, and distance running is not likely to ever be of much use to them in this area. They hope that success in "producing" a few more World/Olympic top 8 or 16 finishes might indirectly lead to some kind of sport development, but it has never worked this way and never will. These things have been and will remain the province of clubs, high schools, and universities, with AC entering the picture only at the very last minute. As such, if we suddenly had to, we could easily do without AC (except for a few administrative functions related to fielding national teams), but AC would be nothing at all without the work of clubs (including private post-collegiate training enclaves), schools, universities. I'm not sure about the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet that the sum total of AC's contribution to the sport in this country is exactly equal to the cost of it's own operations! In other words, I think it adds little or no net value where it really counts. If we love this sport, we need to do it ourselves and more or less forget about the national body, except where strictly necessary.
@bryano Back in the 80s, runners used to come west, period, and most ran big P.B.s shortly thereafter! Traffic and cost of living notwithstanding, the lower mainland remains a great place to train, and it would not take much, in terms of finances, to launch a group similar to Speed River (or to rebuild one like Kajaks) in the area. Perhaps Dylan's presence will induce a few more of the talented B.C. boys to get after it as post-collegians. (More of you guys should be getting in with Richard Lee's group, in my opinion. If you want to learn what it takes to become a real distance runner, look no further!). Of course, not everyone can go out west, and it remains possible to make a go of it almost anywhere here in Canada, as the Guelph boys have clearly shown. Back in the 80s, there were several very strong groups in Toronto and Montreal too. Once there is a critical mass of 3-4 serious people working with a knowledgeable and committed coach, the rest is easier than people think.

And, yeah, don't expect serious leadership from AC in this area. Once you've already managed to get very good, they will take an interest. Until then, you're on your own. They're in the business of competing with other Olympic sports for funding dollars, period, and distance running is not likely to ever be of much use to them in this area. They hope that success in "producing" a few more World/Olympic top 8 or 16 finishes might indirectly lead to some kind of sport development, but it has never worked this way and never will. These things have been and will remain the province of clubs, high schools, and universities, with AC entering the picture only at the very last minute. As such, if we suddenly had to, we could easily do without AC (except for a few administrative functions related to fielding national teams), but AC would be nothing at all without the work of clubs (including private post-collegiate training enclaves), schools, universities. I'm not sure about the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet that the sum total of AC's contribution to the sport in this country is exactly equal to the cost of it's own operations! In other words, I think it adds little or no net value where it really counts. If we love this sport, we need to do it ourselves and more or less forget about the national body, except where strictly necessary.
05/05/2011 1:23:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 153
@oldster My former coach used to tell stories about the mythical training on the West coast. It turned boys into men. I remember him saying how his entire concept of hard work was totally blown out of the water when he joined Prairie Inn back in the day. Apparently they would laugh if you thought 100 mpw was hard work because hard work to them was at least 120. I could be off, but I guess it was sort of like the Canadian version of Athletics West.
@oldster My former coach used to tell stories about the mythical training on the West coast. It turned boys into men. I remember him saying how his entire concept of hard work was totally blown out of the water when he joined Prairie Inn back in the day. Apparently they would laugh if you thought 100 mpw was hard work because hard work to them was at least 120. I could be off, but I guess it was sort of like the Canadian version of Athletics West.
05/05/2011 2:09:53 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 435
@gazoo If he's old enough, he's probably referring to the Kajaks; but, either way, he's not exaggerating. And similar stories could be told about the old Etobicoke Huskies and Toronto Olympic Club groups. For whatever reason, getting Canadian post-collegians to train this way has become a difficult sell. My view is that you need to teach young runners the rudiments of a proper program (scaled down in terms of total volume, of course) when they're in their mid to late teens, or else they will find the transition to the real world of serious running (i.e. such as we find it in places like East Africa, Japan, and the USA) too difficult and daunting. And among those rudiments are: 1. Learning what it really means to run easy on easy days; 2. Learning to train for relatively long periods without racing; 3. Not running MV02-pace intervals on the track all year round; 4. Learning to support a running routine with strength work; 5. Learning that it's not necessary to be able to bust out a P.B. every time you race; 6. Learning how to determine what your ideal racing range is likely to be, and accepting that; Learning how to x-train at high intensity (because if you NEVER get injured when you're older, you're probably not trying hard enough!).
@gazoo If he's old enough, he's probably referring to the Kajaks; but, either way, he's not exaggerating. And similar stories could be told about the old Etobicoke Huskies and Toronto Olympic Club groups. For whatever reason, getting Canadian post-collegians to train this way has become a difficult sell. My view is that you need to teach young runners the rudiments of a proper program (scaled down in terms of total volume, of course) when they're in their mid to late teens, or else they will find the transition to the real world of serious running (i.e. such as we find it in places like East Africa, Japan, and the USA) too difficult and daunting. And among those rudiments are: 1. Learning what it really means to run easy on easy days; 2. Learning to train for relatively long periods without racing; 3. Not running MV02-pace intervals on the track all year round; 4. Learning to support a running routine with strength work; 5. Learning that it's not necessary to be able to bust out a P.B. every time you race; 6. Learning how to determine what your ideal racing range is likely to be, and accepting that; Learning how to x-train at high intensity (because if you NEVER get injured when you're older, you're probably not trying hard enough!).
05/06/2011 1:30:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 153
@oldster Wow, you should be a coach or something... But seriously, I think you hit the nail right on the head. You essentially just listed the finer points of his training philosophy, some of which he learned through trial and error. In regards to the youth, I think your point about easy days is one of the most important and yet the most difficult to teach. Somehow most young runners can't process the idea. Another problem I don't think you explicitly stated was the idea of consistency i.e. running 7 days a week for long periods of time especially in between seasons.
@oldster Wow, you should be a coach or something...

But seriously, I think you hit the nail right on the head. You essentially just listed the finer points of his training philosophy, some of which he learned through trial and error.

In regards to the youth, I think your point about easy days is one of the most important and yet the most difficult to teach. Somehow most young runners can't process the idea. Another problem I don't think you explicitly stated was the idea of consistency i.e. running 7 days a week for long periods of time especially in between seasons.
05/06/2011 8:53:58 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 48
hmmmmm....... ;-) http://www.twu.ca/athletics/cc-track/news-release/2011-12/2011-04-29-mark-bomba.html (Putting my money where my mouth is...) @oldster
hmmmmm.......

http://www.twu.ca/athletics/cc-track/news-release/2011-12/2011-04-29-mark-bomba.html

(Putting my money where my mouth is...)

@oldster

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