Do You really think that 5000m was Slow?
08/11/2012 7:14:11 PM
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Lap 7 was 62.47 so they ran 6.01.19 for last 2400m lap 8 was 61.26 so they ran 4.58.72 for last 2000m lap 9 was 61.21 so they ran 3.57.46 for last 1600m lap 10 was 62.21 so they ran 2.56.25 for last 1200m lap 11 was 61.10 so they ran 1.54.04 for last 800m lap 12 was 52.94 so Mo ran 52.94 for last 400m Not too shabby
Lap 7 was 62.47 so they ran 6.01.19 for last 2400m
lap 8 was 61.26 so they ran 4.58.72 for last 2000m
lap 9 was 61.21 so they ran 3.57.46 for last 1600m
lap 10 was 62.21 so they ran 2.56.25 for last 1200m
lap 11 was 61.10 so they ran 1.54.04 for last 800m
lap 12 was 52.94 so Mo ran 52.94 for last 400m

Not too shabby
08/11/2012 8:27:14 PM
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If I let it bother me, I would be constantly bothered by so many idiots on so many chatlines, who don't have a clue about tactics in distance races in the Major Championships.
If I let it bother me, I would be constantly bothered by so many idiots on so many chatlines, who don't have a clue about tactics in distance races in the Major Championships.
08/11/2012 10:46:13 PM
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@bryano Do you have the lap times for the first seven laps? That may have been what the announcers were referring to at the beginning of the race. The first few laps were relatively slower than the last half of the race.
@bryano Do you have the lap times for the first seven laps? That may have been what the announcers were referring to at the beginning of the race. The first few laps were relatively slower than the last half of the race.
08/11/2012 11:14:27 PM
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The first 3k was 8:42 and they had some 73-74 second laps. Our top 5 youth kids in the rankings could have done "rabbit" work for them. Off such a slow early pace, there must have been a lot of guys thinking they had a 52 bell in their legs to let it go on as long as it did. When they finally decided to make it fast it got really fast!
The first 3k was 8:42 and they had some 73-74 second laps. Our top 5 youth kids in the rankings could have done "rabbit" work for them. Off such a slow early pace, there must have been a lot of guys thinking they had a 52 bell in their legs to let it go on as long as it did. When they finally decided to make it fast it got really fast!
08/12/2012 12:56:36 AM
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Cam Levins should now have a very clear picture of where he is in the world of international T&F. He looked a lot like the guy who was running all-out trying to stay with the top NCAA guys just over a year ago, but would fall off the pace as soon as the real racing got started the last few laps. In 2011-2012 he was able to build up his aerobic threshold to the point where he could "comfortably" run with them at a steady pace, and still have enough in the tank to unleash the last lap. I'm sure he won't up the volume of his training over the next year, but will focus on QUALITY. If he wants to make the jump to actually having a shot of medaling next year, he'll need to be able to also feel comfortable running a much quicker pace. Based on what Galen and Mo have run, Cam will need to be able to break every Canadian record from the mile up to the 10k next year. The medalist finished their last 1600 in 3:57, so clearly they can run a 3:50 mile. Their last 3k was 7:44 high. Their last 2k was faster than the Canadian record for that distance! Can Cam run a 3:50 mile, 7:30 3k, sub 13:00 5k and sub 27:00 10k next summer? It will interesting to see if he goes after those kinds of times. I doubt a guy who runs 150 miles/week would settle for much less. I heard he might try to take down the 5k record this month. 13:13.9 is pretty pedestrian. I hope he gets it.
Cam Levins should now have a very clear picture of where he is in the world of international T&F. He looked a lot like the guy who was running all-out trying to stay with the top NCAA guys just over a year ago, but would fall off the pace as soon as the real racing got started the last few laps. In 2011-2012 he was able to build up his aerobic threshold to the point where he could "comfortably" run with them at a steady pace, and still have enough in the tank to unleash the last lap.

I'm sure he won't up the volume of his training over the next year, but will focus on QUALITY. If he wants to make the jump to actually having a shot of medaling next year, he'll need to be able to also feel comfortable running a much quicker pace.

Based on what Galen and Mo have run, Cam will need to be able to break every Canadian record from the mile up to the 10k next year. The medalist finished their last 1600 in 3:57, so clearly they can run a 3:50 mile. Their last 3k was 7:44 high. Their last 2k was faster than the Canadian record for that distance!

Can Cam run a 3:50 mile, 7:30 3k, sub 13:00 5k and sub 27:00 10k next summer? It will interesting to see if he goes after those kinds of times. I doubt a guy who runs 150 miles/week would settle for much less. I heard he might try to take down the 5k record this month. 13:13.9 is pretty pedestrian. I hope he gets it.
08/12/2012 5:29:05 AM
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[quote=petesakes]I'm sure he won't up the volume of his training over the next year,...[/quote] Or not. Quoting: "I wasn't 100%. I got sick recently and wasn't able to clear out my lungs. I was trying to be positive going into it but I didn't feel I could breathe. It happens. It's part of it. I need to keep working hard, I'm not at the level of some of these guys but I know I can be. I'll probably up the volume."
petesakes wrote:
I'm sure he won't up the volume of his training over the next year,...


Or not. Quoting:

"I wasn't 100%. I got sick recently and wasn't able to clear out my lungs. I was trying to be positive going into it but I didn't feel I could breathe. It happens. It's part of it. I need to keep working hard, I'm not at the level of some of these guys but I know I can be. I'll probably up the volume."
08/12/2012 10:07:48 PM
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@SI10 Mistake, I think, if he runs more than the 140-150 he's already doing. The guys he wants to run with are doing less volume, but higher quality. He has the base, he just can't hold the same pace as they can near the end. Like i said, he has to get his current 3:57 mile PB down closer to 3:50, and maintain his aerobic threshold. If he can run a 3:50 next year, I think he'll be capable to taking down all the CR from 3k to 10k.
@SI10

Mistake, I think, if he runs more than the 140-150 he's already doing. The guys he wants to run with are doing less volume, but higher quality. He has the base, he just can't hold the same pace as they can near the end.
Like i said, he has to get his current 3:57 mile PB down closer to 3:50, and maintain his aerobic threshold. If he can run a 3:50 next year, I think he'll be capable to taking down all the CR from 3k to 10k.
08/13/2012 8:56:22 PM
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[quote=petesakes]@SI10 Mistake, I think, if he runs more than the 140-150 he's already doing. The guys he wants to run with are doing less volume, but higher quality. He has the base, he just can't hold the same pace as they can near the end. Like i said, he has to get his current 3:57 mile PB down closer to 3:50, and maintain his aerobic threshold. If he can run a 3:50 next year, I think he'll be capable to taking down all the CR from 3k to 10k.[/quote] @petesakes I don't know. Many Canadian runners have done the sensible training - the training that everyone else does... and have run about as fast (or slow) as everyone else. Levins is training outside the box. He's doing a little more than everyone else; he's taking risks. And he may be amongst the best distance runners we've ever had. I hope he keeps thinking outside the box, rather than doing that "sensible Canadian training".
petesakes wrote:
@SI10

Mistake, I think, if he runs more than the 140-150 he's already doing. The guys he wants to run with are doing less volume, but higher quality. He has the base, he just can't hold the same pace as they can near the end.
Like i said, he has to get his current 3:57 mile PB down closer to 3:50, and maintain his aerobic threshold. If he can run a 3:50 next year, I think he'll be capable to taking down all the CR from 3k to 10k.


@petesakes

I don't know. Many Canadian runners have done the sensible training - the training that everyone else does... and have run about as fast (or slow) as everyone else. Levins is training outside the box. He's doing a little more than everyone else; he's taking risks. And he may be amongst the best distance runners we've ever had. I hope he keeps thinking outside the box, rather than doing that "sensible Canadian training".
08/13/2012 11:25:05 PM
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@petesakes It's his volume that's earned him the middle initials, "M.F." He should keep the high mileage train rolling.
@petesakes

It's his volume that's earned him the middle initials, "M.F."

He should keep the high mileage train rolling.
08/14/2012 1:21:30 AM
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@donjuan Agreed, he should stick with his CURRENT mileage limit, and see if he can focus more on the quality side of things next year. If he simply goes up to 170-180 miles/week next year, thinking that will take him to the next level, he's done. He'll break down. He said he was really happy with a track session he did earlier this year where he ran like 5 x 1k in 2:36 with short (2 min?) recoveries. That's a 13:00 5k pace. He's trying to race against guys who can run FASTER than that speed for the full 5k with zero recovery! Sub 13 guys typically do 800-1k intervals in under 2:00/2:30 pace. That's where Cam has to improve. If his best mile is 3:57, and his competitors can finish the last 4 laps of their 5k's at that pace, he's not going to be winning too many international races. What makes Cam special is that not only can he run a fast pace (like Mo Amed or Simon Bairu), but he can possibly kick with some of the best as well. Mo and Simon can't do that, so they'll never be serious international competitors on the track. I hope Cam shuts it down (since he's sick anyways) and re-focuses on cross. I'd like to see him run the World Cross in March again.
@donjuan
Agreed, he should stick with his CURRENT mileage limit, and see if he can focus more on the quality side of things next year. If he simply goes up to 170-180 miles/week next year, thinking that will take him to the next level, he's done. He'll break down.

He said he was really happy with a track session he did earlier this year where he ran like 5 x 1k in 2:36 with short (2 min?) recoveries. That's a 13:00 5k pace. He's trying to race against guys who can run FASTER than that speed for the full 5k with zero recovery! Sub 13 guys typically do 800-1k intervals in under 2:00/2:30 pace. That's where Cam has to improve.
If his best mile is 3:57, and his competitors can finish the last 4 laps of their 5k's at that pace, he's not going to be winning too many international races.

What makes Cam special is that not only can he run a fast pace (like Mo Amed or Simon Bairu), but he can possibly kick with some of the best as well. Mo and Simon can't do that, so they'll never be serious international competitors on the track.

I hope Cam shuts it down (since he's sick anyways) and re-focuses on cross. I'd like to see him run the World Cross in March again.
08/14/2012 1:59:36 AM
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[quote=petesakes]@donjuan If he simply goes up to 170-180 miles/week next year, ... he's done. He'll break down.[/quote] @petesakes How in holy hell do you know that? You don't know that, that's how. If he listens well to his body, he won't "break down" simply from running "out of the box" high mileage. (BTW - how is this "out of the box??" I think it really says something - and not something flattering - about our lingering collective mindset that it could be considered "outside the box" for a mature open athlete to be running around 150 mpw...) Buncha friggin' pansies on here afraid to run a little mileage. Geez! ---- OK I'm trying (a little) to exaggerate a bit for effect. But I think young Mr. Levins has stumbled onto the (not so secret) secret to distance running success, and has learned through experience what works for him. Plenty of successful LD runners have run higher mileage than him in the past. If he thinks bumping it a little further is what's right for him, I'd say chances are 95 % he's right and 5 % it's the message board wankers begging him to "start running quality" who are right. Time will tell...
petesakes wrote:
@donjuan
If he simply goes up to 170-180 miles/week next year, ... he's done. He'll break down.


@petesakes

How in holy hell do you know that? You don't know that, that's how. If he listens well to his body, he won't "break down" simply from running "out of the box" high mileage. (BTW - how is this "out of the box??" I think it really says something - and not something flattering - about our lingering collective mindset that it could be considered "outside the box" for a mature open athlete to be running around 150 mpw...)

Buncha friggin' pansies on here afraid to run a little mileage. Geez!

----

OK I'm trying (a little) to exaggerate a bit for effect. But I think young Mr. Levins has stumbled onto the (not so secret) secret to distance running success, and has learned through experience what works for him. Plenty of successful LD runners have run higher mileage than him in the past. If he thinks bumping it a little further is what's right for him, I'd say chances are 95 % he's right and 5 % it's the message board wankers begging him to "start running quality" who are right. Time will tell...
08/14/2012 1:56:00 PM
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@peteq2 If you read carefully you would see I'm agreeing with you. It is "outside the box" because it is not what most top distance runners today are doing, and it is not what typical Canadians (since Drayton) have done in my knowledge. As far as I know, most marathoners today are not running mileage that high. Even Lydiard's track guys didn't do 160mpw as far as I know. Did I say it was wrong for him to do this? Absolutely not. I think more of us need to think a little bit more "outside the box". Few become the best by copying what everyone else is doing.
@peteq2
If you read carefully you would see I'm agreeing with you. It is "outside the box" because it is not what most top distance runners today are doing, and it is not what typical Canadians (since Drayton) have done in my knowledge. As far as I know, most marathoners today are not running mileage that high. Even Lydiard's track guys didn't do 160mpw as far as I know. Did I say it was wrong for him to do this? Absolutely not. I think more of us need to think a little bit more "outside the box". Few become the best by copying what everyone else is doing.
08/14/2012 2:10:23 PM
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@bryano Hey Bryan, sorry my snarky comments weren't aimed at you, although I can see it came across that way since I abused your "outside the box" phrase. Was really doing some more general venting. I will re-state, however, that I'm fairly confident Levins has a clearer idea of what works for him than any of us do commenting from the cheap seats, and would put more weight to his thoughts than that of idle message board chatter.
@bryano

Hey Bryan, sorry my snarky comments weren't aimed at you, although I can see it came across that way since I abused your "outside the box" phrase. Was really doing some more general venting. I will re-state, however, that I'm fairly confident Levins has a clearer idea of what works for him than any of us do commenting from the cheap seats, and would put more weight to his thoughts than that of idle message board chatter.
08/14/2012 5:48:51 PM
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[quote=petesakes] I hope Cam shuts it down (since he's sick anyways) and re-focuses on cross. I'd like to see him run the World Cross in March again.[/quote] @petesakes According to Twitter, he will run the 5000m in Zurich on August 30th. Seems like time enough to get over a cold. https://twitter.com/Flotrack/statuses/234049303008665600
petesakes wrote:


I hope Cam shuts it down (since he's sick anyways) and re-focuses on cross. I'd like to see him run the World Cross in March again.


@petesakes

According to Twitter, he will run the 5000m in Zurich on August 30th. Seems like time enough to get over a cold.
https://twitter.com/Flotrack/statuses/234049303008665600
08/14/2012 6:04:53 PM
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@Stingersxc Cam has studied exercise physiology and seems to be quite involved with his training. I always think it very good when the athlete understands what their body is doing.
@Stingersxc

Cam has studied exercise physiology and seems to be quite involved with his training. I always think it very good when the athlete understands what their body is doing.
08/14/2012 9:43:11 PM
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@bryano I'm glad to hear Cam is feeling better after his "bad cold" that he was taking antibiotics for. Sometimes those things linger, and although you can run, the lungs aren't fully cleared out. If he's 100% for the Zurich race, what do you guys think he can run? I wouldn't be surprised if he got the Canadian record (13:13.9). Do any of you guys know ANY top 5k or 10k or even marathon runner who is currently running consistent weeks of 150-160 miles/week? ANYONE? Farah is doing about 110 miles week, which isn't far off what most Kenyan and Ethiopians marathoners are doing (120-140miles/week). Farah is, however, spending a lot of time in the gym getting stronger. Although Cam has fast forwarded himself to the international stage by being so aggressive with his high volume training, do any of you think that there might be a point of diminishing returns with this strategy? According to Renato Canova, the key reason why the Kenyans have taken their marathon down IS NOT because they are doing more mileage. Google him if you're interesting in learning who he is or what he attributes the faster times to. I think there are ways Cam can work just as hard as he currently is, yet at the same time help him with race-specific requirements at an elite level. According to Cam himself, he struggled with the surging that went on, and had difficulty at the faster pace the races were run. His kick was neutralized as a result. I expect, based on his past racing schedule, Cam will likely return to the World Cross in March. That race could tell us a lot about his 2013 season.
@bryano
I'm glad to hear Cam is feeling better after his "bad cold" that he was taking antibiotics for. Sometimes those things linger, and although you can run, the lungs aren't fully cleared out. If he's 100% for the Zurich race, what do you guys think he can run? I wouldn't be surprised if he got the Canadian record (13:13.9).

Do any of you guys know ANY top 5k or 10k or even marathon runner who is currently running consistent weeks of 150-160 miles/week? ANYONE? Farah is doing about 110 miles week, which isn't far off what most Kenyan and Ethiopians marathoners are doing (120-140miles/week). Farah is, however, spending a lot of time in the gym getting stronger. Although Cam has fast forwarded himself to the international stage by being so aggressive with his high volume training, do any of you think that there might be a point of diminishing returns with this strategy?

According to Renato Canova, the key reason why the Kenyans have taken their marathon down IS NOT because they are doing more mileage. Google him if you're interesting in learning who he is or what he attributes the faster times to.

I think there are ways Cam can work just as hard as he currently is, yet at the same time help him with race-specific requirements at an elite level. According to Cam himself, he struggled with the surging that went on, and had difficulty at the faster pace the races were run. His kick was neutralized as a result.

I expect, based on his past racing schedule, Cam will likely return to the World Cross in March. That race could tell us a lot about his 2013 season.
08/27/2012 9:22:22 PM
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@Stingersxc Just looked at the start lists for the Zurich 5k - no Levins. Hopefully, he's taken some time off after London, gotten rid of his cold, and can have a great build-up to World cross in arch. Rupp came down with something during his 5k heats in London, and ended up dropping out of a 15oom race a few days ago because of it. You just can't through these things and recover quickly.
@Stingersxc

Just looked at the start lists for the Zurich 5k - no Levins. Hopefully, he's taken some time off after London, gotten rid of his cold, and can have a great build-up to World cross in arch.
Rupp came down with something during his 5k heats in London, and ended up dropping out of a 15oom race a few days ago because of it. You just can't through these things and recover quickly.
08/27/2012 9:26:33 PM
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@petesakes Sounds like a good plan.
@petesakes

Sounds like a good plan.
08/28/2012 12:25:19 AM
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cameron supposedly caught his coach from a can.coach
cameron supposedly caught his coach from a can.coach
08/28/2012 4:44:31 PM
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[quote=heintz122]cameron supposedly caught his coach from a can.coach[/quote] @heintz122 I think one of those words was not what you intended. :) On a more serious note, that is really bad if AC is letting sick people to interact closely with athletes. Maybe a long flight next to someone coughing?
heintz122 wrote:
cameron supposedly caught his coach from a can.coach


@heintz122

I think one of those words was not what you intended. :) On a more serious note, that is really bad if AC is letting sick people to interact closely with athletes. Maybe a long flight next to someone coughing?

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